Someone I know, with Asian background, posted
this article on Facebook. Just in case, I have also copy-pasted down here. I have also posted the thread of the comments on this post, a couple of them are mine.
From different sources, some other friends of mine, did get this article as well and looks like, everyone has read it and has something to say about it. It has been the most discussed theme of January so far. Why?
Looks like at the end, everyone feels strong about how children are raised, what should the communication between children and parents be, who should make decisions. Even single people feel strong about this, although they accept that for them is more in the theoretical side of the discussion. It's amazing how people from different backgrounds are looking for the same thing from their children; they want their children to be successful! Success means a good career! Or at least that's how it starts right after reading this article. And then after a couple of minutes in this discussion, they see the other side of the coin; the life. It sounds like the main complain of the children raised with old-style-Chinese mothers is the fact that they didn't enjoy their childhood and then later felt outcast in social areas of life. While the children raised in North America, are confident and follow what the heart tells them. But now, in our days, in the new China, Chinese mothers are shifting slowly to the Western model. They are giving more room to their children to grow up HAPPY. Funny enough, Western moms are shifting to the Chinese model and try to raise their children more career oriented.
Evolution is sorting out the extremes and is trying to bring them somewhere in the middle. There is something good in both of these methods and if we combine them, we will make it to raise children that are successful in career (whatever career they want to be) and also happy to be alive.
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Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior
Can a regimen of no playdates, no TV, no computer games and hours of music practice create happy kids? And what happens when they fight back?
By AMY CHUA
A lot of people wonder how Chinese parents raise such stereotypically successful kids. They wonder what these parents do to produce so many math whizzes and music prodigies, what it's like inside the family, and whether they could do it too. Well, I can tell them, because I've done it. Here are some things my daughters, Sophia and Louisa, were never allowed to do:
Amy Chua with her daughters, Louisa and Sophia, at their home in New Haven, Conn.
• attend a sleepover
• have a playdate
• be in a school play
• complain about not being in a school play
• watch TV or play computer games
• choose their own extracurricular activities
• get any grade less than an A
• not be the No. 1 student in every subject except gym and drama
• play any instrument other than the piano or violin
• not play the piano or violin.
I'm using the term "Chinese mother" loosely. I know some Korean, Indian, Jamaican, Irish and Ghanaian parents who qualify too. Conversely, I know some mothers of Chinese heritage, almost always born in the West, who are not Chinese mothers, by choice or otherwise. I'm also using the term "Western parents" loosely. Western parents come in all varieties.
All the same, even when Western parents think they're being strict, they usually don't come close to being Chinese mothers. For example, my Western friends who consider themselves strict make their children practice their instruments 30 minutes every day. An hour at most. For a Chinese mother, the first hour is the easy part. It's hours two and three that get tough.
When it comes to parenting, the Chinese seem to produce children who display academic excellence, musical mastery and professional success - or so the stereotype goes. WSJ's Christina Tsuei speaks to two moms raised by Chinese immigrants who share what it was like growing up and how they hope to raise their children.
Despite our squeamishness about cultural stereotypes, there are tons of studies out there showing marked and quantifiable differences between Chinese and Westerners when it comes to parenting. In one study of 50 Western American mothers and 48 Chinese immigrant mothers, almost 70% of the Western mothers said either that "stressing academic success is not good for children" or that "parents need to foster the idea that learning is fun." By contrast, roughly 0% of the Chinese mothers felt the same way. Instead, the vast majority of the Chinese mothers said that they believe their children can be "the best" students, that "academic achievement reflects successful parenting," and that if children did not excel at school then there was "a problem" and parents "were not doing their job." Other studies indicate that compared to Western parents, Chinese parents spend approximately 10 times as long every day drilling academic activities with their children. By contrast, Western kids are more likely to participate in sports teams.
What Chinese parents understand is that nothing is fun until you're good at it. To get good at anything you have to work, and children on their own never want to work, which is why it is crucial to override their preferences. This often requires fortitude on the part of the parents because the child will resist; things are always hardest at the beginning, which is where Western parents tend to give up. But if done properly, the Chinese strategy produces a virtuous circle. Tenacious practice, practice, practice is crucial for excellence; rote repetition is underrated in America. Once a child starts to excel at something—whether it's math, piano, pitching or ballet—he or she gets praise, admiration and satisfaction. This builds confidence and makes the once not-fun activity fun. This in turn makes it easier for the parent to get the child to work even more.
Chinese parents can get away with things that Western parents can't. Once when I was young—maybe more than once—when I was extremely disrespectful to my mother, my father angrily called me "garbage" in our native Hokkien dialect. It worked really well. I felt terrible and deeply ashamed of what I had done. But it didn't damage my self-esteem or anything like that. I knew exactly how highly he thought of me. I didn't actually think I was worthless or feel like a piece of garbage.
As an adult, I once did the same thing to Sophia, calling her garbage in English when she acted extremely disrespectfully toward me. When I mentioned that I had done this at a dinner party, I was immediately ostracized. One guest named Marcy got so upset she broke down in tears and had to leave early. My friend Susan, the host, tried to rehabilitate me with the remaining guests.
The fact is that Chinese parents can do things that would seem unimaginable—even legally actionable—to Westerners. Chinese mothers can say to their daughters, "Hey fatty—lose some weight." By contrast, Western parents have to tiptoe around the issue, talking in terms of "health" and never ever mentioning the f-word, and their kids still end up in therapy for eating disorders and negative self-image. (I also once heard a Western father toast his adult daughter by calling her "beautiful and incredibly competent." She later told me that made her feel like garbage.)
Chinese parents can order their kids to get straight As. Western parents can only ask their kids to try their best. Chinese parents can say, "You're lazy. All your classmates are getting ahead of you." By contrast, Western parents have to struggle with their own conflicted feelings about achievement, and try to persuade themselves that they're not disappointed about how their kids turned out.
I've thought long and hard about how Chinese parents can get away with what they do. I think there are three big differences between the Chinese and Western parental mind-sets.
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Newborn Amy Chua in her mother's arms, a year after her parents arrived in the U.S. First, I've noticed that Western parents are extremely anxious about their children's self-esteem. They worry about how their children will feel if they fail at something, and they constantly try to reassure their children about how good they are notwithstanding a mediocre performance on a test or at a recital. In other words, Western parents are concerned about their children's psyches. Chinese parents aren't. They assume strength, not fragility, and as a result they behave very differently.
For example, if a child comes home with an A-minus on a test, a Western parent will most likely praise the child. The Chinese mother will gasp in horror and ask what went wrong. If the child comes home with a B on the test, some Western parents will still praise the child. Other Western parents will sit their child down and express disapproval, but they will be careful not to make their child feel inadequate or insecure, and they will not call their child "stupid," "worthless" or "a disgrace." Privately, the Western parents may worry that their child does not test well or have aptitude in the subject or that there is something wrong with the curriculum and possibly the whole school. If the child's grades do not improve, they may eventually schedule a meeting with the school principal to challenge the way the subject is being taught or to call into question the teacher's credentials.
If a Chinese child gets a B—which would never happen—there would first be a screaming, hair-tearing explosion. The devastated Chinese mother would then get dozens, maybe hundreds of practice tests and work through them with her child for as long as it takes to get the grade up to an A.
Chinese parents demand perfect grades because they believe that their child can get them. If their child doesn't get them, the Chinese parent assumes it's because the child didn't work hard enough. That's why the solution to substandard performance is always to excoriate, punish and shame the child. The Chinese parent believes that their child will be strong enough to take the shaming and to improve from it. (And when Chinese kids do excel, there is plenty of ego-inflating parental praise lavished in the privacy of the home.)
Second, Chinese parents believe that their kids owe them everything. The reason for this is a little unclear, but it's probably a combination of Confucian filial piety and the fact that the parents have sacrificed and done so much for their children. (And it's true that Chinese mothers get in the trenches, putting in long grueling hours personally tutoring, training, interrogating and spying on their kids.) Anyway, the understanding is that Chinese children must spend their lives repaying their parents by obeying them and making them proud.
By contrast, I don't think most Westerners have the same view of children being permanently indebted to their parents. My husband, Jed, actually has the opposite view. "Children don't choose their parents," he once said to me. "They don't even choose to be born. It's parents who foist life on their kids, so it's the parents' responsibility to provide for them. Kids don't owe their parents anything. Their duty will be to their own kids." This strikes me as a terrible deal for the Western parent.
Third, Chinese parents believe that they know what is best for their children and therefore override all of their children's own desires and preferences. That's why Chinese daughters can't have boyfriends in high school and why Chinese kids can't go to sleepaway camp. It's also why no Chinese kid would ever dare say to their mother, "I got a part in the school play! I'm Villager Number Six. I'll have to stay after school for rehearsal every day from 3:00 to 7:00, and I'll also need a ride on weekends." God help any Chinese kid who tried that one.
Don't get me wrong: It's not that Chinese parents don't care about their children. Just the opposite. They would give up anything for their children. It's just an entirely different parenting model.
Here's a story in favor of coercion, Chinese-style. Lulu was about 7, still playing two instruments, and working on a piano piece called "The Little White Donkey" by the French composer Jacques Ibert. The piece is really cute—you can just imagine a little donkey ambling along a country road with its master—but it's also incredibly difficult for young players because the two hands have to keep schizophrenically different rhythms.
Lulu couldn't do it. We worked on it nonstop for a week, drilling each of her hands separately, over and over. But whenever we tried putting the hands together, one always morphed into the other, and everything fell apart. Finally, the day before her lesson, Lulu announced in exasperation that she was giving up and stomped off.
"Get back to the piano now," I ordered.
"You can't make me."
"Oh yes, I can."
Back at the piano, Lulu made me pay. She punched, thrashed and kicked. She grabbed the music score and tore it to shreds. I taped the score back together and encased it in a plastic shield so that it could never be destroyed again. Then I hauled Lulu's dollhouse to the car and told her I'd donate it to the Salvation Army piece by piece if she didn't have "The Little White Donkey" perfect by the next day. When Lulu said, "I thought you were going to the Salvation Army, why are you still here?" I threatened her with no lunch, no dinner, no Christmas or Hanukkah presents, no birthday parties for two, three, four years. When she still kept playing it wrong, I told her she was purposely working herself into a frenzy because she was secretly afraid she couldn't do it. I told her to stop being lazy, cowardly, self-indulgent and pathetic.
Jed took me aside. He told me to stop insulting Lulu—which I wasn't even doing, I was just motivating her—and that he didn't think threatening Lulu was helpful. Also, he said, maybe Lulu really just couldn't do the technique—perhaps she didn't have the coordination yet—had I considered that possibility?
"You just don't believe in her," I accused.
"That's ridiculous," Jed said scornfully. "Of course I do."
"Sophia could play the piece when she was this age."
"But Lulu and Sophia are different people," Jed pointed out.
"Oh no, not this," I said, rolling my eyes. "Everyone is special in their special own way," I mimicked sarcastically. "Even losers are special in their own special way. Well don't worry, you don't have to lift a finger. I'm willing to put in as long as it takes, and I'm happy to be the one hated. And you can be the one they adore because you make them pancakes and take them to Yankees games."
I rolled up my sleeves and went back to Lulu. I used every weapon and tactic I could think of. We worked right through dinner into the night, and I wouldn't let Lulu get up, not for water, not even to go to the bathroom. The house became a war zone, and I lost my voice yelling, but still there seemed to be only negative progress, and even I began to have doubts.
Then, out of the blue, Lulu did it. Her hands suddenly came together—her right and left hands each doing their own imperturbable thing—just like that.
Lulu realized it the same time I did. I held my breath. She tried it tentatively again. Then she played it more confidently and faster, and still the rhythm held. A moment later, she was beaming.
"Mommy, look—it's easy!" After that, she wanted to play the piece over and over and wouldn't leave the piano. That night, she came to sleep in my bed, and we snuggled and hugged, cracking each other up. When she performed "The Little White Donkey" at a recital a few weeks later, parents came up to me and said, "What a perfect piece for Lulu—it's so spunky and so her."
Even Jed gave me credit for that one. Western parents worry a lot about their children's self-esteem. But as a parent, one of the worst things you can do for your child's self-esteem is to let them give up. On the flip side, there's nothing better for building confidence than learning you can do something you thought you couldn't.
There are all these new books out there portraying Asian mothers as scheming, callous, overdriven people indifferent to their kids' true interests. For their part, many Chinese secretly believe that they care more about their children and are willing to sacrifice much more for them than Westerners, who seem perfectly content to let their children turn out badly. I think it's a misunderstanding on both sides. All decent parents want to do what's best for their children. The Chinese just have a totally different idea of how to do that.
Western parents try to respect their children's individuality, encouraging them to pursue their true passions, supporting their choices, and providing positive reinforcement and a nurturing environment. By contrast, the Chinese believe that the best way to protect their children is by preparing them for the future, letting them see what they're capable of, and arming them with skills, work habits and inner confidence that no one can ever take away.
—Amy Chua is a professor at Yale Law School and author of "Day of Empire" and "World on Fire: How Exporting Free Market Democracy Breeds Ethnic Hatred and Global Instability." This essay is excerpted from "Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother" by Amy Chua, to be published Tuesday by the Penguin Press, a member of Penguin Group (USA) Inc. Copyright © 2011 by Amy Chua.
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Some of the discussion on this post: LL: I wasn't allowed to be outside after sunset
BN: The article did not discuss the beats... Belts, tree twigs, sandals and my personal favorite, fly swatter.
JS: you were allowed outside? :(
SA: it'd be interesting to know whether the kids with Asian parents (like in the article) who grew up in western society would be able to do the same things their parents did, to their own children.
i guess this is why more asians excel as oppo...sed to only a few? those who have potential are worked to the bone, to make sure they make use of it lawl.See More
Me: sorry to break your heart, but i like this and although i'm not asian, i do find myself functioning more as an asian mom than a western mom.
LL: @J Don't get too jealous, I was allowed outside to go to school and work
@S Me too; but I don't think they would b/c of the consequences they've suffer as a result (ex. low self-esteem, being socially inept)
KL: I'm not sure any of this is as uniformly good that the article presents it as. They assume that their children are psychologically fine and let me tell you from experience that a lot of "asian" children may be "successful" but many are mise...rable and in jobs and careers they hate. Its a stereotype but there are significant social impairments that result from such a unilateral upbringing that fosters obedience over independence. success is also very fluid term. They in this article term it merely as academics which is far from true. Rote learning can be useful but there is a reason why that despite doing better than the rest of the world on aptitude tests for a very long period by now, asian countries still fall far behind in innovation. Almost every new technology company that are revolutionizing and leading the field is indeed western. why is that? Why is that despite the massively higher academic average of asian countries, it is still the fact that the best universities are in America and Europe. The fact is that there is worth in fostering creativity and independent thought. discipline is great and all but to favour discipline to such an extreme degree over any self development in personal choice creates ppl who are self controlled but have no direction or vision of their own. It just creates easily controllable ppl that are lets be honest not very well adapted to change
Me: If you try to compare extremes, you can never find a perfect solution. None of them is right. Not sure if you are seeing both sides of the story. America has good Uni-s because they have money. Have you checked on the % of the western vs as...ian graduates on these top notch American uni-s? How come there are so many Asians that graduate with high scores in the American schools where innovation and leadership is promoted and required? I have asian friends and I do not see any low self esteem on them, actually, some are way more confident than north Americans. Maybe a combo of both techniques would bring better results. I’m all for parents to ask nothing but strait As on the report cards and respect on the way communication in the family is handled. But I would let them go out on play dates, choose the instrument they like to play, be active with sports and force the decision for the school profile up to high school. The way I see it (without wanting to offend any profession), western method produces few geniuses, few comp. programmers and a lot of plumbers. While the Chinese method produces few geniuses, lot of comp. programmers and few plumbers.
KL: I'm not sure that the main determining factor or at least the only determining factor in the strength of universities are in the amount of money that flows through them. Yes the private unis in America are very wealthy but if you look at th...e rankings many publicly funded western universities which are far from being much better funded than a top asian university rank higher. yes a lot of asians graduate from western universities but that is somewhat a concession of my point, they decided to come to/ attend a western university, many of them being not from western countries. why is that? It is because Western universities ultimately do force achievement in areas beyond obedience, rote learning, and conventionally accepted choices to some extent though not to the degree that they should in my opinion. Yes the fact that asians do well in western universities is because they do have good work habits and discipline because of their upbringing but they go to western universities because they are better which is due to the fact that they expect more than that. should other "cultures" support higher achievement and work ethics, probably, but to the extreme degree of unilateral obedience the article support is ridiculous. also the very fact that "non-asian" style raised students at western universities are able to do as well or better in some cases, but were raised differently, leads to the conclusion that it is possible to succeed without the militant, control heavy, essentially brainwashing the author suggests should be emulated.
I understand that there is a lot of beneficial aspects of high expectations, but it also needs to be coupled with a understanding that A's alone do not determine worth and that failure is not catastrophic occurrence but a natural healthy manifestation of taking risks. Failure should not be feared or berated just as much as excellence should be pursued. the article def presents a ridiculous level of parental control, though I'm hardly advocating parents be blase about their children's success. I feel that the best route is encouraging high achievement while also supporting personal growth, independence and choice. The statement that I feel most opposed to is the one in the article that underlies much of what I feel the argument the author pursues is, which is that children have no idea of what is "good" for them and thus need to be completely ignored. children in my opinion are not to be molded in fordian mass production factory but to be guided with the explicit understanding that ultimately their lives are theirs to live and that their choices are ultimately of utmost importance. In the end I do not believe anyone wants to be directing their children's future forever but the article seems to think that children are only suited to make decisions when their decisions will be exactly that of the parents. If that was ever possible are desirable society would be pretty much doomed. Culture, society, technology, and economy evolve, and if I may be optimistic, get better, for the very reason that children have consistently chosen on very core matters of value differently from what their parents would have fundamentally determined as "good". Ignoring what children want in their lives is implicitly saying that the parents are always right which I dont think anyone would want to support. If your children do not have a good work habit then, yes teach them, convince them, find something they are interested in pursuing in which to help them be successful at while maintaining competence in the basic core abilities, but to brainwash them and break them so they bend explicitly to your will and become exactly what you want them to be is besides the point of parenting in my mind. You also have to remember that computer programming was not always a viable career or seen as a "good" life choice or something desirable. Many parents thought in the past that their children who were wasting their time on computers were wasting their lives and lacked the "good" sense to become doctors and lawyers. If it was left to "Chinese" mother's the software and personal computer industry would not have ever developed since both industries came to be because ppl/children against their parents best wishes devoted time to a hobby and thus created the technology that was later adapted by business for better "economic" use. InfoTech as we know it today did not arise to solve business problems. it arised through "pointless" personal indulgence in a "non-worthy" activity which was later co-opted and made lucrative through business applications, often by the very same ppl who "wasted" their lives developing their ability at what everyone else thought was a bad and useless activity.
LL: Holy shit, K
KL: too much? I don't know, I guess I'm just passionate about the issue and the fact that the article really pissed me off
AK: i see your point and you are right, at some point parents do have to let children take control of their lives. Hope you are pissed only with the author and not with me :)
KL: lol, I'm not pissed off at you at all. It's just that the article had this somewhat presumptuous tone where of course everyone else who didn't embrace the "chinese" mother's parenting was obviously wrong.
